Firstly, at what point is it ok to stop using the spoilers tag and just say death of Damian?

Mainly, why did the events take place so soon after? We have this great Snyder arc of the "death" of the family, and are barely into the aftermath of it when suddenly, "hey everyone! Damian's dead! Come buy this horribly drawn and awful comic to find out why!" And I apologize, as that is just my opinion , but I think the art is terrible in Batman, Inc. They look like poorly drawn shrinky-dinks or something to me. Just bad. I did buy the issue, btw, in digital an first print on ebay. But I think Damian deserved a better series to die in. Whether he's Morrison's or not.

Secondly, why does this even have to affect the main Bat-books? Isn't Batman, Inc. supposed to be a prequel to the previous series? This is where DC continuity begins to piss me off.

I feel like it's a marketing trick to sell more copies in the main Batman & Robin series with this new Batman & Guest Star series.

Honestly, that's a cool idea. What I don't like is that there was no breathing room between the DOTF and the death of Damian. We deserve some aftermath of each. It seems Grant just came along and stole Scott's thunder.

Also, I didn't like the fact that everyone was kicking it with Bruce right after in Red Hood #17.

Anyone feeling anything like this? Talk to me.....

I edited out his name only.

Hello, fellow students. My name is Anon, and I'm a guy - gender ambiguous names can sometimes lead to confusion on the internet, and I'm here to help you out! Go me. This is the second semester of my junior year as I study (wait for it) Literature and Film. It's a dead major now, but I still get to finish it. I can practically feel the luck spewing from my substantial collection of orifices. Now, I like to see myself as the embodiment of fun. I'm a fun guy. It's my thing. That's not to say that I do fun things (I don't), but that my very presence inspires joy in the hearts of other. However, as this is an online course, you will not get to feel that joy. Sorry. Not my problem. That's just how Zeus thought things needed to go. Lately I've been hooked on HBO's "Game of Thrones" series. I read the first book, watched the first season, and now I am watching the second season as I read the second book. It gives me the ability to point at what's happening on the screen and shout, "Nuh uh, Home Box Office! You're wrong!" Those instances are surprisingly few and far between: it's a very faithful adaptation, and it's lovingly made with what appears to be a very substantial budget. The first episode of the first season is a little rough around the edges, but things quickly get moving. You'll soon find yourself crying into your curtains after spending ten hours on the couch with an empty bag of Doritos in your lap.
While it was not purely a "television" moment, I seem to recall the Transformers film (not that Michael Bay travesty he made three times over with slightly different plots and slightly different explosions and slightly different lead women) being cut to run on cable television at some point in my childhood. I was a big fan of the animated series, so I was pretty much jumping out of my pants when it came time to watch a movie. A movie about robots that shoot at each other. I was, like, five (that was fifteen years ago - POP QUIZ: how old am I?). Do you not understand what a transformative experience this was about to be? No. You don't. And neither did I. About ten minutes in, Optimus Prime died. They killed him. The main character was dead, and we were only about a tenth of the way done with the movie. On the scale of things that are super-traumatic, that ranks just below your entire family being eaten by a chimera with dysentery. So, uh, since Optimus is kinda out of the picture , I think I'm going to go with Batman as my television character who I'd enjoy being. As far back as I can remember, there has been at least one Batman show on television, and Batman does not seems to die nearly as often as a certain 18-wheeling robot man.

Though he is always the physical peak of health throughout his career, after a certain age there is no way he can keep up with guys much younger then him. When does he start being batman? How long is he batman until Robin # 1 shows up? And so on.

This the scenario that every major event in Batman history happens in one time line. Robin #1 becomes Nightwing, Robin 2 dies and comes back as the Redhood, Bane breaks his back, he joins the Justice league, ect.

In what conceivable time frame can batman still be a physical badass during all these events? Age takes it's toll on anyone, even Batman

At what age would Bruce be forced to admit his body is too old to keep up with much younger opponents?

This might make me sound like a pussy but if I think about certain moments in of Batman I will cry.

1. in "The Dark Knight Returns" When Batman is talking to Dick Grayson in his head, is beaten by the Mutant leader and thinks Carrie Kelly is Dick Grayson.

2. In "Under The Red Hood"(movie) When Batman is flashing back to Jason Todd's first patrol as Robin and as soon as Jason says "This is the best day of my life." I ALWAYS burst into tears

3. In the Dark Victory when it flashes back and forth between young Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson right after their parents die and shows the parallels between them.

actually just as I am writing this out I realize that all these moments have to do with the robins. I'm not exactly sure why, Maybe because Batman can relate to them and he cares about them. Anyway I get really emotionally involved with Batman.

OCTOBER 2012

• BATGIRL #13 (Prelude to Death of the Family)
• CATWOMAN #13 (Prelude to Death of the Family)
• BATMAN #13

NOVEMBER 2012

• BATGIRL #14
• BATMAN #14
• CATWOMAN #14
• SUICIDE SQUAD #14

DECEMBER 2012

• BATGIRL #15
• BATMAN #15
• BATMAN AND ROBIN #15
• DETECTIVE COMICS #15
• NIGHTWING #15
• RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS #15
• SUICIDE SQUAD #15
• TEEN TITANS #15

JANUARY 2013

• BATGIRL #16
• BATMAN #16
• BATMAN AND ROBIN #16
• DETECTIVE COMICS #16
• NIGHTWING #16
• RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS #16
• TEEN TITANS #16

FEBRUARY 2013

• BATMAN #17

Does anyone have thoughts or theories on who is going to die?

I recently finished Under the red hood and the ending doesn't let you know who lives aside from batman. Does Jason Todd die?

Alright, I'm a longtime fan. Originally roped in by the old movies and the animated series when I was just a kid. Most of my knowledge comes from the movies and parts of the series (im currently re-watching it for the first time in years) and I haven't read enough of the comics to be proud of (working on that). I know there are a ton of different robins and batmen and I just wanted to know, how does the line of succession go, who was robin/batman when and with who?

I'll fill in what I already know.

-Starts with Bruce

-Dick Grayson is first robin, then Nightwing, then later batman(i'd like to know when he becomes batman)

-(heres where I get fuzzy) Jason Todd also becomes robin, but he supposedly dies and shows up again as the Red Hood

-Then theres Tim Drake who is robin, but he gets brainwashed/killed by the joker?

-Then theres Damian Wane, he becomes robin (but under which batman?) And then he's Batman later on, and is he Bruces son? Is that why his name is Wane?

-Does Batman Beyond fit anywhere with this particular line of succession? Seeing as there isnt a new batman until Terry shows up to old, run down Bruce.

I'm posting this because I'd really like to know more about the Batman universe I love. Please help me fill in the blanks and let me know how the different versions differ. Thanks a lot guys!

EDIT: Thank you everyone for your detailed responses!

The joker said he sent his blood to hospitals in Gotham. Batman uses the only cure. So does Batman just let all the other sick people die?

the part where Alfred calls you about a cure was a trick by the mad hatter

Let me know what you guys think and you are more than welcome to correct me or ask for proof about anything. Thanks!

In Gotham City, an ordinary man lays low his entire life and fails to keep a criminal record or even a social security number, (probably born outside of a hospital). This man wanders the streets of the city randomly, probably homeless, and someway or another comes up with the theory that man is naturally evil; much like the theme of the book The Lord of the Flies by William Golding.

This man becomes so obsessed with the idea that he vows to prove his theory, using the citizens of Gotham City as his lab rats. He invents an alternative persona for himself so as not to attract unwanted attention while he is trying to prove his theory. The man dresses himself up like a clown and laughs maniacally whenever possible. He may or may not have caused the scars himself; we may never know. By creating this persona, he comes off as a "freak", allowing himself to not be seen as a real threat by the mob or the police or even Batman. They think of him as a joke and nickname him "Joker", however he never calls himself that.

Joker's first order of business is to teach the mob a lesson about greed and what being evil truly means. Joker robs their bank to get their attention. After Joker successfully drives away with bags of cash, he meets with the mob in order to make them a offer: He will kill the Batman and in return, wants half of the mob's money that their accountant Lau has hidden. They are interested but ultimately decline as Gambol announces that they are putting a large bounty on his head. The Joker is forced to flee and is now left with a problem: In order for him to successfully prove his theory, he must remain a "crazy nobody". But how would be accomplish this with a million dollar bounty on his head? Bounty hunters would start to take notice in him.

Anger at Gambol for declining his offer, the Joker immediately invades his hideout and slaughters him in front of his men. Before doing so however, the Joker tells a horrific but completely BS story about his father giving him scars.

The Joker uses this story as a scare tactic for the audience and for Gambol's men. At this point we think he is totally crazy, but his story was a complete lie as we find out later. Because of all the lies Joker tells in this masterpiece of a movie, one has to assume that everything the Joker says is a lie.

After Joker kills off the loose end, Gambol, he captures one of the "fake Batmans". Note that he is laughing maniacally in this video, putting on a show for the viewers. Joker hangs the fake's dead body from the city hall along with the footage that demands that Batman take off his mask and turn himself in or people will die. Joker didn't mean for the video to get posted to the media. Joker wants Batman to take off his mask because he believes that if he does, Batman will be much easier to corrupt; he wants to slowly break him down, starting with the physical mask that the Batman wears.

The Joker then poisons the police commissioner and kills a judge via car bomb. At the same time, Joker himself shows up at Bruce Wayne's party in order to locate and kill Harvey Dent, another target. After unsuccessfully finding Harvey and observing Batman jump out of a twenty story building in order to save Rachel, Joker leaves. Joker invades the parade in order to try to kill another target, the mayor, but is unsuccessful when Gordon blocks the bullet.

Watching the news the next night, the Joker is informed that Harvey Dent has revealed himself as the Batman and has turned himself in. Thinking this is true, The Joker gleefully blocks the convoy that is taking Dent to central holding with a burning firetruck. (Sidenote: the burning firetruck represents corruption. Just like a firetruck is suppose to fight fires and yet is on fire itself, Harvey is suppose to fight criminals, but ends up becoming one himself). Joker contacts Maroney and has his men capture Rachel and take her to a secret location. Joker then attempts to overtake the vehicle, hoping to capture and torture Harvey Dent/"Batman" in order to allow him to succumb to his evil side. However, as the Batmobile rolls up, Joker realizes that Harvey Dent is not the real Batman, but just another fake. Angry, Joker tries to shoot a rocket at the convoy that Harvey is in which Batman deflects costing him his tumbler.

Joker loses interest in Harvey's convoy and allows Maroney's men to capture him, while he pursues batman in his newly formed Batpod. However, things do not go according to plan when Batman grapples Joker's truck and turns it completely over. Luckily, Joker isn't seriously injured and stands in the way of Batman's oncoming cycle.

Now this scene is pretty damn interesting. Wanting to corrupt Batman more than anything, Joker doesn't move out of the way at all. Joker insists on corrupting Batman; if he were to hit him, Batman would have broken his one rule of killing. This also shows that Joker is not afraid to die if it means that his theory is proved. However, he is disappointed when Batman swerves in order to miss and crashes his bike. Due to the destruction of the Joker's truck, his plan cannot go on.

But please note, Joker never puts his life in danger during the course of this whole movie unless his death means he is corrupting someone.

Joker must have had a backup plan for if he ever got arrested or that was his original plan all along. Either way, Joker allows himself to get caught by the police. During the interrogation, the Joker admits that he is not afraid of Batman because he knows that Batman will not and can not kill him. He then reveals that both Rachel and Harvey have been captured and switches the addresses of each on purpose, knowing that Batman will go after Rachel as shown by the window incident earlier in the movie. In doing this, the Joker forces Batman to break his own rule and choose between Harvey and Rachel. He of course chooses Rachel and sends the police after Harvey. After Batman realizes the addresses have been switched, he pulls Harvey out of the explosion just in time, but Rachel isn't so lucky.

Joker allows Rachel to die, causing Harvey to go into depression and anger and falling deeper into his dark side. However, Batman is also effected by this incident but stays vigilant, making him the true hero.

Meanwhile, Joker escapes prison by effectively using the cellphone bomb he planted in a goon of his weeks before. He blows up the majority of the police station and captures Lau, bringing him to the mob. The Joker says "He is a man of his word" when he delivers Lau and the location of the money to the Chechen, implying that he had a seperate deal with the Chechen when Gambol wasn't around. The mob reward him with half of the money that Lau reveals, which he then burns. The irony of the situation is that Lau is on top of the burning money pile, and ultimately gets killed by the one thing he loves.

The Joker's entire motive for getting the money from the mob was to teach them a lesson about crime and what being a criminal really is. "It's not about the money, it's about sending a message," he says to himself.

He then wonders if he cut the Chechen up into little pieces how loyal a hungry dog really would be, strengthening his curiosity for the theory on whether or not man is truly evil. Joker inherits the dogs.

After realizing that Batman is almost unbreakable, Joker switches his full attention to Harvey Dent who is now in the hospital after his accident. In order to get some alone time with Harvey Dent, he clears out a hospital by threatening to blow it up and then sneaks in dressed as a nurse. During their alone time, the Joker gives a quite intelligent but bullshit monologue about how he doesn't have a plan and how he is just a dog chasing cars. He gives this speech in order to take the blame off of him for Rachel's murder. In order to seal the deal of corruption, Joker gives Harvey the choice to kill him, but is ultimately disappointed when Harvey doesn't pull the trigger. If Joker hadn't given his BS speech, Two face would blame him for the murder of Rachel and kill him for the wrong reasons: out of anger instead of out of corruption.

Note that Joker again puts his life at risk in order to corrupt a good person. Joker leaves and blows the hospital up as he goes.

Joker, content with the level of evil he has brought out of Harvey Dent, moves his focus to the rest of the citizens of Gotham. On the two ferries, he gives the citizens a choice whether or not to blow the other ferry up. However he is again disappointed when, at midnight, both ferries are still standing. He tries to destroy the ferries out of anger, but Batman knocks him off a skyscraper and he goes tumbling to his inevitable death. As he falls, he laughs, realizing that he has won and corrupted The Dark Knight by breaking his one rule. However Batman just in time grapples him back up to which the Joker stops laughing and says, "You truly are incorruptible". He reveals that Batman wasn't his main project and Batman quickly rushes to save Dent. However, it is too late and, while trying to kill a child, he falls to his death.

Batman and Gordon realize that the Joker has won and he has shown that even the best of men are truly evil on the inside. Gotham needed a hero, a White Knight, and that Knight had failed them, even going to the horrific lengths of almost murdering an innocent child. The Joker, a totally sane man, created a monster and psychopath.

The Joker proved his theory somewhat correct, not ALL men can be corrupted, but anyone can be.

TL;DR: The Joker successfully proves a theory that maybe not all men are evil, but some are. He had a plan.

EDIT2: (extremely mild )TDKR SPOILERS removed. SOME VERY LARGE SPOILERS IN THE THREADS BELOW. BEST POLICY - DON'T READ THE THREAD UNTIL SEEING TDKR

EDIT: There is some seriously amazing and insightful discussion going on in the comments. /r/batman may be my new favorite subreddit!

The Joker tells two different stories of how he got his scars in THE DARK KNIGHT. Why?

The first version is told to Gambol, the crime boss:

Wanna know how I got these scars? My father was a drinker and a fiend. And one night he goes off crazier than usual. Mommy gets the kitchen knife to defend herself. He doesn't like that. Not. One. Bit. So - me watching - he takes the knife to her, laughing while he does it! Turns to me, and he says, "Why so serious, son?" Comes at me with the knife... "Why so serious?" He sticks the blade in my mouth... "Let's put a smile on that face!" And... why so serious?

The second version is told to Rachel:

Oh, you look nervous. Is it the scars? Wanna know how I got 'em? C'mere, look at me. So, I had a wife, who was beautiful...like you, who tells me I worry too much, who tells me I oughta smile more, who gambles and gets in deep with the sharks… Hey. One day they carve her face. And we got no money for surgeries. She can't take it. I just want to see her smile again. Hmm? I just wanted to let her know that I don't care about the scars. So, I stick a razor in my mouth and do this... to myself. And you know what? She can't stand the sight of me! She leaves! Now I see the funny side. Now, I'm always smiling!

Why does the Joker tell two different, contradicting stories?

The most superficial interpretation is: the Joker is insane. He is so mentally ill he is incapable of being honest or consistent even with himself. So, the stories reflect Joker's mental turmoil.

Many audience members will not advance past this interpretation, and that's fine.

A related second answer would be that the Joker is a pathological liar. Throughout THE DARK KNIGHT the Joker manipulates his enemies through lies, trickery, disguises, and traps:

1. The bank robbery and massive double-cross.
2. Pretending to be dead to get inside Gambol's headquarters.
3. "I just want my phone call" and the cellphone bomb.
4. The Joker tells Batman the wrong location for Harvey and Rachel.
5. It is heavily implied that the Joker is pulling a similar trick on the two ferries.
6. Joker dresses as a guardsman to infiltrate the parade and shoot at the Mayor, and he sets up the sniper trap for Batman.
7. He dresses as a nurse to infiltrate the hospital.
8. He sends assassins to Judge Surillo who pretend to be her bodyguards.
9. The pencil trick.

The two scar stories, then, can be seen as a continuation of the Joker's pattern of terrifying deceit and unpredictability.

Again, this interpretation is valid, and many viewers of THE DARK KNIGHT will not delve any deeper than this.

However, a third interpretation is the Joker is creating a self-conscious performance. The Joker always introduces his story with "Wanna know how I got these scars?" He is asking the question that everyone must be thinking when they look at his disfigured face, but nobody actually dares to ask. He asks it for them. It's important that he tells the story of an abusive father to Gambol, and the story of a neglectful wife when speaking to Rachel; he is clearly tailoring his story to his audience.

If we look closer, two themes unite the Joker's stories. In both stories, the Joker is the victim of physical or emotional abuse. The second theme is humor ("Why so serious" / "Let's put a smile on that face" / "Now I'm always smiling"). Humor is associated with insanity: people know that laughing when nothing is funny, or laughing uncontrollably, are symptoms of a madman.

The Joker is thus "reciting" a "myth" that people create in their own minds when they meet the Joker: the Joker must have been a victim of physical or emotional abuse, and the scars made him so detestably ugly that he went insane to cope.

This is a very unoriginal, vanilla origin story for a villain. BUT, in telling different variations on this same stereotypical story, the Joker is clearly winking at the audience. "So-and-so is what people THINK happened to me."

In reality, neither story is true. The Joker is not actually a laughing madman. He is often sarcastic and he has a sharp sense of humor (for example, he is clearly aware of how grotesque his nurse disguise is). But in many scenes, the Joker is serious and sober. Remember when the Joker escapes in the cop car with his head hanging out the window? Jack Nicholson and Mark Hamill would be laughing maniacally in this scene. Heath Ledger's Joker is silent.

The Joker does laugh several times in THE DARK KNIGHT, but it is a performance, like his clown makeup. The Joker laughs when he wants other people to think he is insane. The two clearest examples of this are when he is making his televised terrorist threat (interrogating the wanna-be Batman) and in his final conversation with Batman (while hanging upside down). Batman may be fooled, thinking Joker will "rot in a padded cell forever," but Nolan's Joker isn't insane. He rarely exhibits out-of-control, irrational, or impulsive behavior.

Just to drive this point home, the Joker even utters a sarcastic fake-laugh when he meets the mob ("Ha ha. Hee. Ho. And I thought MY jokes were bad."), clearly emphasizing how in-control he is. It is evident that his laugh while torturing the wanna-be Batman is just as much a performance.

The Joker uses storytelling to paint an image of himself as a madman, but he is really a mastermind.

In typical Nolan style, we can go even one level deeper.

A final interpretation of the Joker's stories is that the Joker is making a powerful comment on the DIFFERENCE between Joker and Batman.

If we look at Batman, his origin story is central. It is not just an explanation for his powers, like Peter Parker's radioactive spider or Superman's planet Krypton. Batman's origin story is his MOTIVATION for becoming Batman. Batman is not the result of a scientific experiment gone wrong, like the Hulk; Bruce Wayne made a conscious CHOICE to become Batman after his parents died. Batman's origin story is also the source of a painful tension in Bruce's character: his conflicting desires for revenge (violence and vigilantism) versus justice (law and order).

In short: Batman is defined by Bruce Wayne's past.

One of the themes of THE DARK KNIGHT is the contrast between the Batman's "one rule" (no killing) and the Joker's "no rules" attitude. A few lines in the film draw attention to this. Crime boss Maroni tells Batman that nobody will help him find the Joker: "You got rules. The Joker, he's got no rules. No one's gonna cross him to you." The Joker tells Batman: "You have all these rules and you think they'll save you…. The only sensible way to live in this world is without rules."

By telling conflicting stories of his origin, Joker draws a powerful contrast with Batman. Batman is defined (and limited) by his past. The Joker is free to invent his own past. Since he has no past, he has no motivation. As he tells Harvey: "Do I really look like a guy with a plan? … I just DO things. The Mob has plans. The cops have plans. Gordon's got plans. You know, they're schemers. Schemers trying to control their little worlds. I'm not a schemer. I try to show the schemers how pathetic their attempts to control things really are."

In short, Joker is defined by his LACK OF a past.

Batman is scarred (psychologically) by his parents' death and he never forgets it. The Joker doesn't even bother to remember why he has scars.

The Joker uses people's pasts to manipulate them several times in THE DARK KNIGHT. At the most superficial level, Anna Ramirez is corrupted thanks to her mother's hospital bills. Going a little deeper, the Joker corrupts Harvey Dent by appealing to his lifelong appreciation for fairness (represented by the coin).

The person who has the most vulnerable past is Batman himself. The Joker is able to get the better of Batman several times because of this. First, the Joker forces Batman to crash his bike rather than violate his one rule. Then, the Joker is immune to Batman's beatings and intimidation because he knows Batman can't kill him. Ultimately, Joker tricks Batman into letting Rachel die by sneakily appealing to his secret love for her.

The Joker is a man without a past, and that's what makes him a terrifying villain.

It also makes THE DARK KNIGHT a complex, ambiguous, deep, and fascinating movie.

Not everyone analyzes movies to death, but classic movies grab our imaginations because they are open to interpretation, discussion and analysis. That's what makes THE DARK KNIGHT a classic.

Talia's death. How did she die? Did she die because Batman fucked her ride up? Does that break his rule -yes I know he did it in TDK but under different circumstances. Doesn't mean he'd do it again.-

How the FUCK does Batman not die??!?!?!

If the top is not any clue there are going to be massive spoilers for the dark knight rises. First I am going to start off with some facts.

1. Christen Bale and Christopher Nolan have been very against the inclusion of Robin in this universe of movies. Bale has even be quoted as saying that if robin is in the movie than he is not going to be batman in it.
2. When bruce wayne dies in the comics Dick Grayson, a former robin, becomes Batman.
3. This is the final movie in the dark knight trilogy. Nolan has gone on record that this will be end of the story started in batman begins.

now time for some of my theories expanding from some of these facts above.

1. Since John Blake has a simler background to most robins and if bruce wayne is "dead" he is clearly going to be batman in the future (sorta concluded from the end of the film, and could be batman in a future film), also you find out his name is robin after Bale is not batman. He also has a group of kids that would make great robins in the manor above him and he could have a robin in the future movies. 2. The second is I am asking you guys (reddit) how long does the movie last (not running time but from the 8th anniversary of dents death to the end of the film) as I need some confirmation on some of the events that transpire to see if a second theory will hold ground. If someone could even make a chart of order of events that would be wonderful.

These are the two I have right now. Will update later with more.

... exactly the way it did. I see some complaints that having Batman go out the way he did was a cop-out, and I find myself in total disagreement.

Here is a character, like every famed and beloved comic book hero, who is plagued by his total inability to change. It's written into his dna. Bruce Wayne never changes, he's Batman and he'll always be Batman. If other characters have to hate him for it, we'll draw our drama from that (Batman Beyond). But no matter what, Bruce Wayne is Batman. In no format have we ever been really allowed to see the Batman character realistically evolve, until now. And that is just as daring a move as the rather obvious and un-clever one a lot of us predicted. Some of us wanted Batman to die. Well, he does.

Batman dies. Nolan has said that TDKR draws a lot from Tale of Two Cities. When Gordon reads the last lines in front of Wayne's tombstone, I thought it was meant to mean that this man has died so that the city may live. It's almost the same thing as TDK, really. Batman just making more sacrifices to ensure the future of his city. But it's not about that. In Tale of Two Cities Carlton dies so that Darnay, a man that he believes has much more to live for, can survive. In this way Carlton feels that his life had meaning. Batman doesn't die for Gotham, he dies to save Bruce Wayne. It's a genius incorporation of a genius novel, and integrating it's themes into the themes of Batman is a brilliant conceit from the (sometimes maligned) script.

Why does Bruce Wayne die in the public eye? I mean the audience is led to believe Batman dies (when he really doesn't), but the public? They don't know Batman is Bruce Wayne...

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Google is surprisingly vague about this, and searching /askscience for falling body explode returned no results.

In movies like Die Hard, Robocop and Batman, the antagonist is dispatched by falling off a skyscraper (Die Hard, Robocop, Batman). Their bodies are usually portrayed intact, in a pool of blood at most. This is inconsistent with my own experiments involving watermelons and my roof.

Do human beings "splat"? And if not, what keeps us together when so many other things (lexmark printers, fruit) break apart on impact?

My friends and I are planning on making a bunch of predictions for TDKR and putting some money on it. Then I thought, wouldn't it be great if /r/batman did the same thing? (No money of course). So how about it? I would totally be willing to create a Google doc or something, and then turn the data into graphs, charts, etc. /r/awake did this recently and I thought it was really cool.

If you're interested, upvote, comment, downvote, anything! I think this would be really interesting to get the predictions from the most knowledgeable Batman fans around. Also, let me know when you think the poll should be posted, closed, possible questions and answers, where the poll should be or anything else! (Date is important because more and more information is leaking out via trailers, leaked info, and cough action figures). It will also be interesting to see just how wrong (and right) our predictions are after the movie is out.

Possible Questions: 1. Does Batman die? A) If yes, then is he replaced? 2. Final scene? 3. Does Bane break Batman's back? 4. What is John Blake's role in the plot? 5. Does Ra's al Ghul come back, or is he simply in a flashback? 6. What is Miranda Tates role in the plot? (Love interest, Talia, other) 7. Does Anne Hathaway pull off her role as Catwoman? 8. How hyped is the movie to you? 9. Do you believe the movie will live up to the/your hype? 10. Will the movie receive any award nods? (Best film, directing, score, acting, effects, etc) 11. Do any other characters die? 12. Does scarecrow make an appearance? 13. When will you see the movie?

(Note: I tried to stray away from questions Nolan has officially denied, such as any Joker references. Also we want to prevent possible spoilers for twists people never thought about such as the new alleged toy spoiler, possible spoiler)

TL;DR I want to post a quick poll to get the community's predictions on TDKR, would you be interested?

edit: formatting/grammar

I'm a huge fan of Damian Wayne so I bought the Morrison/Quietly BM&R but I'm totally confused as to why Nightwing is Batman. Which book should I read to get the story?

I am submitting this to my teacher soon and some constructed criticism would be great! let me know what you think and how I can improve it :)) It's a long read :/

An armed man in tights breaks into an asylum, attacks the patients, kicks a man in a wheelchair down the stairs, and goes on an axe rampage. Batman is undoubtedly insane. The Joker knows it, Mad Hatter knows it, even Batman deep down inside knows it. Before entering Arkham Asylum, Batman tells Commissioner Gordon, “I’m afraid that when I walk through those asylum gates...It’ll be just like coming home” (Morrison). By trying to deny what he really is, Batman’s rationality and grasp of what is right diminishes `to the point where even the insane consider him a danger to society. Morrison testifies that it is insane to fight against one’s insanity; it is a battle one cannot win because one cannot escape their destiny, only accept it.

Morrison introduces the story with a quote from Alice in Wonderland, “We’re all mad here. I’m mad, you’re mad.’ ‘How do you know I’m mad?’ said Alice. ‘You must be,’ said the Cat, ‘Or you wouldn’t have come here” (Carroll). Like Alice, Batman fails to realize the fact that he willingly enters this land of mystery and confusion and decides to cage himself in with all the freaks. One cannot fly with the eagles and flock with the crows. He cannot help but naturally gravitate towards where he is meant to be. Joker invites Batman to the asylum over the phone and states, “We want you! In here. With us. In the Madhouse. Where you belong” (Morrison). Initially, everyone besides Batman realizes how utterly mad he really is. Why else would a man (especially a multi-billionaire with everything in the world) sacrifice his life night after night in order to try and bring order to the disorderly? Even the Joker realizes the irrationality of Batman’s actions.

Ruth Adams, the Asylums psychiatrist, characterizes the Jokers insanity as a distorted perception of reality in which he acts on impulse and recreates himself each day. The Joker has not only accepted his madness, he embraces it. Upon entering the asylum, Batman calls Joker a “filthy degenerate,” to which Joker responds, “Flattery will get you nowhere” (Morrison). He does not have a care in the world because he has no conflict with it at all, unlike Batman. Joker is not immoral, rather, he is amoral. He does not realize nor question the rationality of his actions because, well, there is no rationality to them and he knows it. Like Amadeus, the Joker accepts his insanity and because he is free from doubt, he is able to be free from society and their morals. Despite his mental instabilities, the Joker is able to capitalize on Batman’s own mental problems with ease. This is obvious when Joker triggers a flashback to a tragic moment in Bruce’s past through a word association game. Morrison writes, “Gun? Father. Father? Death. End? Stop....stop” (Morrison). This causes Batman to have a flashback to the day when his parents were murdered in front of him as a child. The memory brings Batman to his knees and ends only after he pricks himself with a large shard of glass in order to snap out of it. This game only shows just how easily and quickly the Joker is able to pull Batman down to his level of mental instability and unrestraint.

Batman’s story is a parallel to that of Amadeus Arkham, the asylums founder. He is a moral man who does immoral things for moral reasons. It is a paradox that when seen from a rational standpoint is obviously an irrational logic. Like Bruce Wayne, Amadeus Arkham experienced an unbelievable tragedy as a child and struggled with the thought of his own sanity, that is... until he succumbs to his fate as a madman. Bruce is able to fight against the notion of his sanity at stake better and actually make it through the asylum alive. However, just because he is free, out there, in the “real world,” does not mean he is any better than Joker and the rest of them. Upon leaving the asylum the joker says, “Enjoy yourself out there. In the Asylum” (Morrison). Within the asylum, where they belong, the inmates are able to create their own perception of the world and it is crazy for them to live in one that does not adhere to their views, like the outside world. That is why the world outside of the asylum walls is almost like an asylum to them. It is a mad world that they do not understand. Batman makes it out alive only because he is able to learn the way things work within the asylum.

Arkham Asylum is a place where up is down left is right and right is wrong. In trying to “rehabilitate” its patients, this facility manages to amplify one’s previous mental instabilities. The asylum becomes almost like a playground for its psychotic tenants; a playground where they are not bound by the morals and rules of the outside world, where they are free to relish in their own idea of sanity and explore their natural prerogative no matter how twisted it may be. The Asylums founder, Amadeus Arkham, decides to reconstruct the house he grew up in into a rehabilitation center after witnessing the manifestation of his own mothers mental illness. Throughout his childhood, he watched as his mother got worse and worse until she slit her own throat because of her dark visions. Arkham writes in his journal, “I shall contain the presences that roam these rooms and narrow hallways” (Morrison). Amadeus decides to help the mentally insane by protecting them and others from havoc cause by madness, however, madness cannot be contained. Batman dedicated his whole life to the same idea and later realizes, like Arkham, that true liberation comes from becoming what one is destined to be, whatever that may be.

Amadeus slowly begins to go crazier and crazier the more time he spends within the asylum walls. He begins to hear voices that only stop after he tapes up his mirror; essentially when he stops looking at himself. Arkham’s madness is able to fully manifest within him now because he fails to see what he is becoming. He ultimately becomes lost in the dreamland that is the asylum unable to tell what is real and what is not and thus becoming a madman within the madhouse. In his journal he writes, “Madness is born in blood. It is my birthright. My inheritance. My destiny” (Morrison). In realizing his fate, Arkham is able to fully delve into the enigma that is his mind and in full blown madness Amadeus begins to see the “virtue in madness,” even going as far as feeling pity towards people who are, “Confined to the Euclidean prison that is sanity” (Morrison). He embraces his madness as making him whole, complete, and free at last. Because he is able to let everything go and stop struggling against the nature of his own mind, Amadeus is able to finally rest in peace without conflict and surrender his mind to the nature in which it was meant to be, insane. Even though the late Mr. Arkham was a complete lunatic, he still realized that one cannot escape their destiny and surrendering to it is the only way to end the struggle. Batman only realizes this at the end when he becomes irrational and starts going crazy with the axe and lets his fate be decided on a coin toss.

Towards the end of the novel Batman finally realizes that the only way to fight fire is with fire. Therefore the only way to fight irrationality is with irrationality and furthermore madness with madness. Batman states, “Arkham was right; sometimes it’s only madness that makes us what we are” (Morrison). Batman finally embraces his madness and irrationality of the paradox by realizing that one cannot reason with the irrational. He is stronger than them, stronger than this place. Therefore, Batman acts completely out of character and goes nuts with an axe. He starts ripping through walls and all sorts of wires to the point where an inmate calls out, “The Bat! You should never have allowed him in here, Joker! He’s too dangerous” (Morrison). Batman, who was formerly lost in the dreamworld that is Arkham has had little to no success when trying to combat his madness. As soon as he learns to accept the madness, the tides turn in his favor. Batman becomes stronger as he engages in personal transcendence. The Joker gives Batman two options, that is, either put on a straight jacket and admit himself as one of the patients or die. Batman does the unthinkable, handing Two-Face a coin and letting his fate be decided on a coin toss. Tails he lives, heads he dies. It was tails and Batman is free. However, it is later revealed that the coin toss was heads and would have arranged for Batman to be killed. Why would Two-Face lie about the coin toss? Was it as gratitude for his coin back? Was it even his decision or just another one of his mad antics? One must not try to battle logic with insanity.

I feel that he could be considered a "hero" (without the super) or a good detective, but without powers he does not fit the bill.

If he wasn't rich and his parents didnr die, he'd just be ....a smart guy.

What is your opinion? Anyone can be a hero, but NOT a super hero!

 The main thing I hear from atheists is that they think theists are stupid in believing things 

that are clearly false and that their twisted logic brings down human society as a whole. The thing is, if there is no God or eternity or whatever after you die, (if atheists are right) then the time we spend on Earth is only as meaningful as we believe it is and the betterment of our species becomes completely subjective. What if I believe that if I perform enough acts of vigilantism during my mortal life then when I die my consciousness will live on forever with Batman in Gotham City. Who's to tell me I'm not entitled to my beliefs? And then as long as my beliefs and morals line up with what society agrees with everything is just fine.

I mean, if he does die, then Christopher Nolan's practically already told us as much, what with images of the broken mask, the end of the prologue, the trailer in which Bane says, "When Gotham is in ashes, you will have my permission to die." I dunno, it just seems like a bit of a massive spoiler to give away several months before the film's released. Anybody else reckon Nolan's in the process of pulling off a massive bluff?

At what point does Bruce Wayne die and Dick Grayson take his place? What books would one have to read for this arc to make sense?

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1229567/on_why_batman_is_the_greatest_person.html?cat=38

What's worse is, the guy used a really old draft, probably posted somewhere back in 2004ish. Current draft below, for comparison's sake, does having a .doc that's been copied around between hard drives multiple times really prove anything in this situation?

I thought it might be a laugh to write to him and Yahoo claiming that there's a $2,000 royalty fee on this article then just sit back and wait for the $ signs to come rolling in but beyond that I really wouldn't know if it's even worth pointing out to him that he's a shit for plagiarism, petty as it may be in this instance.

On why Batman is the greatest person, fictional or non, ever An urgent news bulletin by Rob Hackney

Batman. Even if you haven't read the comics, even if you haven't seen the movies, you know who he is. In a nutshell: Wears a scary as shit superhero costume, hangs out with the JLA, and beats suspects at roughly a Rodney King level of brutality. But what makes Batman more special than, say, not Batman?

He has no super powers

In your rush to assume that you were already up to speed with how Batman operates you may not have considered that he in fact possesses no super powers. So how does he do all of that amazing stuff? Simple, he trained long and hard for the majority of his childhood and all his adult life. Batman is trained in almost every conceivable art of fighting. Hell, he's even a ninja. And one thing that’s certain about ninjas is that they never, ever screw around. Unless you pay them specifically to screw around. Sure, it's easy to beat up your run-of-the-mill graverobbers and bootleggers and tubthumpers with ninja skills and gizmos, but then... Batman also beat up Superman. Yeah.

He can beat up fricking Superman

In Frank Miller’s Elseworlds tale 'The Dark Knight Returns', an aging Batman faces a bleak future where gangs of hooligans are killing in his name, getting about Gotham city with their violence and skateboards and varying rapster lingos.

Superman meanwhile has become the US Government's official lapdog, a strongarm enforcer of shady policy and the like. When Bruce Wayne once more decides to take on the mantle of the bat, political unrest sees the President send Superman after his old friend Bruce, with orders to stop him by any means. Of course, Superman knows that Batman will never be brought in alive, and so, of course, the two battle it out in an epic struggle punctuated by nuclear ICBMs raining down and snappy one-liners being tossed about in rapid fire succession as all hell breaks out around them.

It’s here that the veteran underdog’s heart begins to give, but it won’t quit on him before a final chance to wipe the shit-eating grin off Superman’s shit-enjoying face, pummeling Supes with a handy set of kryptonite gloves—engineered years ago for just such a contingency.

"You're beginning to get the idea, Clark. This is the end, for both of us. We could have changed the world. Now look at us. I've become a political liability, and you, you're a joke. I want you to remember, Clark... in all the years to come... in your most private moments... I want you to remember my hand at your throat... I want you to remember the one man who beat you..."

And then… Batman dies. Or does he? No. He totally fakes it. He rocks up six months later living under an assumed identity, teaching wayward street toughs how to fight crime. Just like Andy Kaufman.

He's the world's greatest detective

Batman's not just trained by the best fighters on this or any planet, but also the greatest criminologists and forensic psychologists. Bruce Wayne spent his adolescence travelling around the world, using his vast inherited wealth to study under skilled detectives and scholars of subterfuge. He learned about the criminal mind from the inside out by getting in amongst the seedier element of society on the ground floor of Gotham’s gritty underbelly—to observe, and acclimatize. Waiting for the moment when confidence and opportunity would align. Getting ready for a day when he could finally punch someone really fucking hard in the nutsack and then the face.

He recovered from a broken spine

When the super-criminal Bane busted all the inmates out of Gotham's Arkham Asylum, it fell upon Batman to round them all up. Each death at their hands was another for which he blamed himself. By the time that last mental case was recaptured, Batman was weak, exhausted, and just aching for a shit.

Only then did Bane strike, tracking Batman to his secret “bat’s cave”-themed lair, known as The Batcave, and with the aid of the super-steroid and sometime Spider-Man villain 'Venom', defeated the Dark Knight in hand-to-hand combat. Hoisting Batman high above his sizeable frame, Bane brought him down hard with a knee to the spine, fucking Batman’s shit all the way up to eleven.

Most people don't come back from a broken spine. There was, well, Bruce Lee, and that’s probably all. Therefore, while fictional, Batman remains the only living person who has recovered from a broken spine. It was a long, hard road back to good health and fighting form, but he returned triumphant, having sex with Bane’s sister and posting it on the internet.

He never loses

Batman is not only mentally and physically honed to perfection, but relentlessly driven by a score which can never be settled. When his parents were murdered in front of him as a boy, Bruce vowed to avenge their deaths with his indefinite war on crime. If he were to ever stop being the bat, he would be breaking that promise to his dead parents. If he were to lose, he would no longer be Batman. Therefore, Batman always wins. Physics.

He’s intimidating

Criminals are a cowardly and superstitious bunch, and thank God for small favors, as that cowardice manifests itself as a crippling fear of bats for an almost suspiciously high percentage of Gotham’s criminal underworld. Maybe the phobia of bats is a self-fulfilling prophecy, or maybe Bruce just got incredibly lucky, thanks to the environmental factors of a moderate climate and plentiful caves lining up perfectly with a population both enthralled and terrified by Sir David Attenborough’s recent, Bats: Nature’s Draculas.

He will haunt you

If by some miracle you thwart Batman, you will spend the rest of your life looking over your shoulder. He will always find a way. The guy is literally insane, it’s not even worth the grief. While you’re busy sleeping and eating and shitting Batman is in a cave somewhere doing chin-ups while frowning at a computer printout of your face and current location. Oh yeah, and he only sleeps two hours a day. How? He’s fucking Batman.

He has a pretty expensive computer as well

In closing, Batman’s great. Just don’t screw with him. Don’t rob a Gotham bank or kill any prostitutes because Batman will be there to wreck your entire universe. It’s unclear where he stands on circumventing DRM or grey market imports but I personally wouldn’t take the risk. Batman will keep on fighting, and punching, and detecting the shit out of crimes, until the day he either dies, is replaced by someone with a scarier costumer, or resolves his numerous emotional issues.

Edit - Has been taken down by someone helpful in the thread, a lot of good advice handed out, and I'm glad for the feedback. This has been an overall positive experience, I appreciate you Reddit.